# Isolated Email Account
**URL:** https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104
**Category:** General Discussion
**Created:** [September 7, 2023, 3:27am UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104 "2023-09-07T03:27:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@nezuko.kamado](https://forum.torproject.org/u/nezuko.kamado)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 3:27am UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/1 "2023-09-07T03:27:58Z")
I am very new to all this (meaning strong privacy and anonymity, tails, tor, etc.)
I hope I am not intruding, or posting inappropriately. First let me say that I am NOT repeat NOT wanting to do anything illegal, harmful, or even unethical. I just want privacy. I have my reasons, and I’ll leave it at that.
What I want is a truly isolated email account for which I do not have to provide ANY personally identifiable information that gets back to my real identity. Proton wants a real permanent “backup” email. Tutanota seems to be hostile to tor.
My Requirements:
– Hosted in a country with strict privacy laws and not one of the five eyes
– Tor-friendly, even better if they have a .onion service
– Only want to supply them with a userid and strong password. That’s it. No backup emails, no phone 2FA, none of that.
– A paid service is fine as long as I can use BTC, or even better XMR(monero)
– I am even willing to pay to set up my own domain, provided I can do it with the same isolation requirements as above)
Futher I’d like to know if anyone can recommend other forum sites where issues like mine (strong, isolated anonymity and privacy) are discussed.
Thanks so much for any help you can give.
---
### Author:  [@FranklyFlawless](https://forum.torproject.org/u/FranklyFlawless)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 7:33am UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/2 "2023-09-07T07:33:36Z")
> [@nezuko.kamado](#):
>
> What I want is a truly isolated email account for which I do not have to provide ANY personally identifiable information that gets back to my real identity. Proton wants a real permanent “backup” email. Tutanota seems to be hostile to tor.
Tutanota accepts Tor Browser users creating email accounts with their service for free as in gratis: see this blog article for further details.
> **[Anonymous email: Create an email address without a phone number.](https://tuta.com/blog/posts/anonymous-email/)**
>
> Tutanota is anonymous email without compromise: Encrypted, no mobile number required, no logging of IP addresses, and forever free.
> [@nezuko.kamado](#):
>
> My Requirements:
> – Hosted in a country with strict privacy laws and not one of the five eyes
> – Tor-friendly, even better if they have a .onion service
> – Only want to supply them with a userid and strong password. That’s it. No backup emails, no phone 2FA, none of that.
> – A paid service is fine as long as I can use BTC, or even better XMR(monero)
> – I am even willing to pay to set up my own domain, provided I can do it with the same isolation requirements as above)
I have a shortlist of webmail providers that do not have secondary requirements and are free as in gratis, but they may or may not be hosted in the Five Eyes; I do not consider it in my threat model. Other than Tutanota, I have not tested the others for Tor-friendliness.
My specific testing criteria was: English; free tier without third-party invitation requirements and/or a trial period; no advertisements; no email address and/or phone number requirements for signup and/or service usage.
- [MsgSafe.io](https://www.msgsafe.io/)
- [Skiff](https://skiff.com/)
- [Tutanota](https://tutanota.com/)
There is also one more webmail provider that is highly likely to meet these requirements, but I have not tested them myself:
- [Autistici/Inventati](https://www.autistici.org/services/mail)
Note that unlike your requirements, my focus was on free as in gratis, because I believe secure and private email should be available to everyone first; using them anonymously is an entirely separate issue that is very difficult to practically address.
> [@nezuko.kamado](#):
>
> Futher I’d like to know if anyone can recommend other forum sites where issues like mine (strong, isolated anonymity and privacy) are discussed.
Other than the Tor Project, I know and am personally involved in a few more related forums to varying degrees:
- [Purism](https://forums.puri.sm/)
- [Qubes OS](https://forum.qubes-os.org/)
- [Whonix](https://forums.whonix.org/)
---
### Author:  [@Eldalie](https://forum.torproject.org/u/Eldalie)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 8:20am UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/3 "2023-09-07T08:20:25Z")
> I hope I am not intruding, or posting inappropriately.
I think you are quite off-topic here, the _General Discussion_ category is still dedicated to “Anything _related to Tor ecosystem_ which does not fit into the Support or Feedback category” (italics is mine).
Anyway…
> What I want is a truly isolated email account for which I do not have to provide ANY personally identifiable information that gets back to my real identity
>
> My Requirements:
I use [Disroot](https://disroot.org). It’s from Netherlands (I don’t know about Dutch privacy law, but it’s not in the Five Eyes); has an onion service; supports backup email and TOTP 2FA but they are not mandatory; is free to use but accepts donations including BTC and XMR.
Disclaimer: I never used anything I’m going to write about below.
I also read intereseting stuff about [Posteo](https://posteo.de/en) but I never cared to study it in detail. It’s pay-only but accepts cash and doesn’t link the payment to the account.
> – I am even willing to pay to set up my own domain, provided I can do it with the same isolation requirements as above)
Every domain name is linked to the real identity of the owner (it can be either published through WHOIS or not, but the register and registrar know it). The only way to buy a domain anonymously I am ware of is through [Njalla](https://njal.la), that registers it to itself and then lets you use it, but it feels quite shady to me. However, if you are to trust it you may purchase a domain name and a VPS and set up your own mail server, e.g. as described [here](https://landchad.net).
---
### Author:  [@FranklyFlawless](https://forum.torproject.org/u/FranklyFlawless)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 9:18am UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/4 "2023-09-07T09:18:40Z")
> [@Eldalie](#):
>
> I use [Disroot](https://disroot.org). It’s from Netherlands (I don’t know about Dutch privacy law, but it’s not in the Five Eyes); has an onion service; supports backup email and TOTP 2FA but they are not mandatory; is free to use but accepts donations including BTC and XMR.
A verification email is mandatory to use the service; specifically, in step 4:
> [@](#):
>
> Step 4: Enter a verification email\*
>
> This email will be used during the verification process and will be removed once the account is created.
[https://user.disroot.org/pwm/public/newuser](https://user.disroot.org/pwm/public/newuser)
The last time I was testing their registration services, they also do not permit account creation during the weekends. I forgot their reasoning and exact quote for it, but perhaps that situation has changed since.
> [@Eldalie](#):
>
> The only way to buy a domain anonymously I am ware of is through [Njalla](https://njal.la), that registers it to itself and then lets you use it, but it feels quite shady to me.
Yes, that is indeed one of the anonymous domain registrars. The other one I also know about is IncogNET, as I was made aware of them by their Tor reduced exit policy.
> **[Anonymous Domain Name Registration | IncogNET](https://incognet.io/anonymous-domains)**
>
> Register a domain name anonymously with crypto!
---
### Author:  [@boldsuck](https://forum.torproject.org/u/boldsuck)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/5 "2023-09-07T17:55:34Z")
> [@FranklyFlawless](#):
>
> A verification email is mandatory to use the service; specifically, in step 4:
Then simply use a disposable address for it:
[trash-mail.com](https://www.trash-mail.com/)
[trashmail.de](https://www.trashmail.de/)
---
### Author:  [@Alexey104](https://forum.torproject.org/u/Alexey104)
#### Post date: [September 7, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/6 "2023-09-07T17:55:36Z")
You can try [danwin1210.de](http://danwin1210.de). It has onion and clearnet domains, supports mail clients and does not need any personal info from you - only login and password. But this is a volunteer project.
---
### Author:  [@FranklyFlawless](https://forum.torproject.org/u/FranklyFlawless)
#### Post date: [September 8, 2023, 6:41am UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/7 "2023-09-08T06:41:09Z")
> [@boldsuck](#):
>
> > [@FranklyFlawless](#):
> >
> > A verification email is mandatory to use the service; specifically, in step 4:
>
> Then simply use a disposable address for it:
> [trash-mail.com](https://www.trash-mail.com/)
> [trashmail.de](https://www.trashmail.de/)
I agree, but that would go against @nezuko.kamado’s third requirement:
> [@nezuko.kamado](#):
>
> – Only want to supply them with a userid and strong password. That’s it. No backup emails, no phone 2FA, none of that.
---
### Author:  [@boldsuck](https://forum.torproject.org/u/boldsuck)
#### Post date: [September 8, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/8 "2023-09-08T14:04:46Z")
> [@FranklyFlawless](#):
>
> I agree, but that would go against @nezuko.kamado’s third requirement:
This is only for the one-time email for verification. He can later use his _strong_ password on Disroot.
By the way, using **only** passwords is outdated. I use 2FA almost everywhere. All my weblogins, SSH keys, mail accounts, etc. require 2FA with OnlyKey or NitroKey.
---
### Author:  [@TorOps](https://forum.torproject.org/u/TorOps)
#### Post date: [September 8, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/9 "2023-09-08T19:18:18Z")
I think Disroot is a good option. It’s free, they’re based in Amsterdam, and it doesn’t collect your data. Personally, I use it. Riseup and Systemli are good options but they’re invite only, which makes it difficult to get an email address from them.
---
### Author:  [@Zhk2stsf](https://forum.torproject.org/u/Zhk2stsf)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2024, 10:43am UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/10 "2024-04-15T10:43:51Z")
To sign up for forums. including this forum, requires an email address. Unfortunately, it seems very difficult to get an anonymous email address. If I try to sign up for an email address, it asks me to verify using either my phone number (not private) or ANOTHER email address (which pushes the problem back a step). If someone wants to contribute anonymously to forums over tor, including this forum, how can they get an anonymous email address for signup purposes?
There is another issue. Suppose we do have another email which we can safely use for verification. If I want to make a protonmail account on their onion over tor, very often nowadays they will not even give me the option to use a verification method. They will say “no verification method available.” Given this, what is a good, zero-access encryption privacy email that DOES allow me to verify with another email address (an email address that might not have zero-access encryption)?
Thank you for your help.
---
### Author:  [@FranklyFlawless](https://forum.torproject.org/u/FranklyFlawless)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2024, 11:52pm UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/11 "2024-04-15T23:52:31Z")
> [@Zhk2stsf](#):
>
> If someone wants to contribute anonymously to forums over tor, including this forum, how can they get an anonymous email address for signup purposes?
> [@Zhk2stsf](#):
>
> Given this, what is a good, zero-access encryption privacy email that DOES allow me to verify with another email address (an email address that might not have zero-access encryption)?
You can use Tuta(nota).
> **[Anonymous email: Create an email address without a phone number.](https://tuta.com/blog/anonymous-email/)**
>
> Tuta Mail (formerly Tutanota) is anonymous email at its best: Encrypted, no mobile number required, no logging of IP addresses, and forever free.
Since my first contribution at the beginning of this thread, [MsgSafe.io](http://MsgSafe.io) is undergoing a transitional acquisition, and Skiff is shutting down, so that leaves Autistici/Inventati as the only other remaining webmail provider fitting the OP’s criteria.
> **[Skiff is shutting down - but your emails can stay private!](https://tuta.com/blog/skiff-shutdown)**
>
> Skiff announced it is shutting down: All Skiff services will be closed six months from now as the company joins Notion.
Otherwise, you can try your luck with ephemeral email addresses, but they tend to be placed on third-party blacklists. For example, AdGuard provides such a service:
> **[Temp Mail: free temporary disposable email generator. One-time 'fake-like'...](https://adguard.com/en/adguard-temp-mail/overview.html)**
>
> Get a free disposable email address to prevent spam and protect your data. Learn how to use a temporary email address generator.
---
### Author:  [@ukmr](https://forum.torproject.org/u/ukmr)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2024, 4:19pm UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/12 "2024-04-16T16:19:49Z")
Sadly Daniel’s had to close [danwin1210.de](http://danwin1210.de) to new email subscribers due to persistent spam abuse of the service. However, [danwin1210.de](http://danwin1210.de) remains available to those who had a subscription prior to the service closing to new subscribers which happened approximately since the start of 2024.
See “Closing registration for good” at [Learnings from running an email service](https://danwin1210.de/blog/email-service-learnings/)
---
### Author:  [@ukmr](https://forum.torproject.org/u/ukmr)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/13 "2024-04-16T16:45:57Z")
Additional free options include:
> **[SimpleLogin | Open source anonymous email service](https://simplelogin.io/)**
>
> With email aliases , you can be anonymous online and protect your inbox against spams and phishing.
&
> **[DuckDuckGo Email Protection Duck Addresses](https://duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/email-protection/duck-addresses/)**
>
> DuckDuckGo Email Protection conceals your email address with Duck (@duck.com) Addresses. Learn to create and manage your Duck Addresses here.
Proton’s free email service also facilitates email aliases. See “How to create an alias in Proton Mail?” at
> **[What is an email alias? | Proton](https://proton.me/blog/what-is-email-alias)**
>
> Find out how aliases (extra email addresses) can help you protect your privacy, block spam, and keep your inbox organized for personal or business use.
Of course, Proton can be accessed via Tor at,
[https://protonmailrmez3lotccipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7ozyd.onion/](https://protonmailrmez3lotccipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7ozyd.onion/)
---
### Author:  [@boldsuck](https://forum.torproject.org/u/boldsuck)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2024, 10:08am UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/14 "2024-06-04T10:08:37Z")
> [@ukmr](#):
>
> Sadly Daniel’s had to close [danwin1210.de](http://danwin1210.de) to new email subscribers due to persistent spam abuse of the service.
> See “Closing registration for good” at [Learnings from running an email service](https://danwin1210.de/blog/email-service-learnings/)
(Riseup too) I can understand that very well. Most of those who are calling for total anonymity have never offered a service on the Internet themselves and therefore have no idea what the legal and financial consequences are. Every morning the cops can show up at your door to search your house and take away all your computers, cell phones and other IT stuff. Then there’s your wife, the children, the neighbors and maybe your boss, none of whom are amused by these house searches. To them, you’re a criminal because they don’t understand what you’re doing. Currently Indian terrorists have sent bomb threat emails via my IPs. Now I am having fun with the Indian police and gov. Or just **a few spam emails can render the email service unusable for everyone!** , for weeks or months.
On the other hand, you read that people have problems sending an anonym email to Disroot.
Guys, can you still think? The people behind Disroot are squatters and street fighters who engage in battles with the cops every few weeks! They offer a lot of infrastructure for activists for free. No matter if it’s Disroot, Riseup, Systemli or the dozens of others on the Radical Server list. The people there work their asses off and have half a foot in jail to offer these services to the community.
---
### Author:  [@Tangerine](https://forum.torproject.org/u/Tangerine)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2024, 5:41pm UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/15 "2024-06-04T17:41:47Z")
> [@nezuko.kamado](#):
>
> I am even willing to pay to set up my own domain, provided I can do it with the same isolation requirements as above)
For this, I have used [FlokiNET](https://vf7vsrexwb7e4j65idp4hq4eqlvjiwrnvi3jnb4st7oteer5tzgvhaqd.onion/index.html)and I am quite happy with them.
They do not require any personal info to create an account and you can pay with Monero. Their site works over Tor (they have a .onion site) and you can ssh into your VPS over Tor using `torsocks`. On top of all that, they also have free WHOIS protection for domains hosted with them. They are headquartered in Iceland and have VPSs in Iceland, Romania, and Finland, none of which are part of the Fourteen Eyes. They also have a wide variety of OSs to choose from, including OpenBSD for extra security.
It sounds like I am shilling them, but I am really just trying to share. I spent a lot of time looking for a VPS provider that checked all these boxes and they were the only one I found. I hope this helps!
---
### Author:  [@boldsuck](https://forum.torproject.org/u/boldsuck)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2024, 9:42pm UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/16 "2024-06-08T21:42:21Z")
> [@Tangerine](#):
>
> I spent a lot of time looking for a VPS provider that checked all these boxes and they were the only one I found. I hope this helps!
Yes, Floki is one of the oldest and best known in this business. Especially recommended for journalists and activists who are looking for a professional service.
Other nonKYC services that can be paid with XMR:
[KYCnot.me](https://kycnot.me/?t=service)
[Businesses, stores, services where you pay with XMR](https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/)
---
### Author:  [@FranklyFlawless](https://forum.torproject.org/u/FranklyFlawless)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2024, 2:35am UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/17 "2024-06-10T02:35:29Z")
1984 is also hosted in Iceland, with Monero as a supported payment method. This combination of information is not provided in either of the above links.
> **[1984 - Safe hosting in Iceland](https://1984.hosting/)**
>
> 1984 is a green ethical hosting company in Iceland. Founded in 2006, 1984 has been dedicated to freedom of speech. We offer the traditional ready to use webhosting with mail services. VPS with preconfigured Wireguard setup, OpenVPN, Nextcloud and...
Also, to follow up on Disroot:
> [@FranklyFlawless](#):
>
> > [@Eldalie](#):
> >
> > I use [Disroot](https://disroot.org). It’s from Netherlands (I don’t know about Dutch privacy law, but it’s not in the Five Eyes); has an onion service; supports backup email and TOTP 2FA but they are not mandatory; is free to use but accepts donations including BTC and XMR.
>
> A verification email is mandatory to use the service; specifically, in step 4:
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Step 4: Enter a verification email\*
> >
> > This email will be used during the verification process and will be removed once the account is created.
>
> [https://user.disroot.org/pwm/public/newuser](https://user.disroot.org/pwm/public/newuser)
>
> The last time I was testing their registration services, they also do not permit account creation during the weekends. I forgot their reasoning and exact quote for it, but perhaps that situation has changed since.
Accessing the Disroot link quoted above during the weekends leads to this message:
> [@](#):
>
> # Registration closed for the weekend
>
> Everyone needs a bit of rest. Check back on monday
>
> — The Disroot Team.
If you require email registration during the weekends, use a different webmail provider.
---
### Author:  [@ukmr](https://forum.torproject.org/u/ukmr)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2024, 2:36am UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/18 "2024-06-10T02:36:10Z")
@Tangerine,
Unfortunately the The Five Eyes alliance (FVEY) plus “others” is far more extensive than it might appear, at a glance, due to the inclusion of so-called “Third Party Contributors”
"What are third-party contributors?
Aside from the 5-9-14 Eyes country groups, there are other third-party contributors to the UK-USA Agreement alliance. These countries share with and receive intelligence data from the Eyes group, but have fewer rights and responsibilities.
Among the third-party contributors are countries belonging to NATO ( **Iceland** , Greece, Hungary, **Romania** , the Baltics including **Finland** [1] and many other European countries), as well as other strategic allies - Israel, Singapore, South Korea, Japan, and more." [2]
[1] [Baltic region - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_region)
[2] [https://cybernews.com/resources/5-eyes-9-eyes-14-eyes-countries/](https://cybernews.com/resources/5-eyes-9-eyes-14-eyes-countries/)
A presentation series about the FVEY+ streamed in 2019 stated at the time an estimated, approximate 100 countries were linked-in to the FVEY framework. Perhaps it’s likely such a large number of countries might primarily function as third-party contributors, in varying degrees & possibly also depending on the operational requirements of the core FVEY alliance.
Finally as a matter of operational security you still have to trust your VPS host, as so many of us Tor relay operators are obliged to do & that’s not in any way a criticism of FlokiNET or any other VPS provider, it’s simply to state a possible OPSEC consideration. In this context self-hosting a Tor relay might be a viable alternative, in certain instances, when the operator holds control of the server’s physical hardware, perhaps omitting Tor exit relays for a number of feasible reasons, many littering the broader history of the Tor network.
Further exploration of the FVEY+ alliance…
[https://peertube.su/w/p/o889pqRJxNzhgp1zPncgeQ?playlistPosition=1](https://peertube.su/w/p/o889pqRJxNzhgp1zPncgeQ?playlistPosition=1)
---
### Author:  [@boldsuck](https://forum.torproject.org/u/boldsuck)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2024, 9:53pm UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/19 "2024-06-10T21:53:57Z")
> [@FranklyFlawless](#):
>
> Accessing the Disroot link quoted above during the weekends leads to this message:
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > # Registration closed for the weekend
> >
> > Everyone needs a bit of rest. Check back on monday
> >
> > — The Disroot Team.
>
> If you require email registration during the weekends, use a different webmail provider.
It can sometimes take a few days longer. What do you actually expect?!
These services are offered **by people with their money in their spare time**. Even at RiseUp and Systemli, someone will answer you **until they** have time. This is a friendly offer that we can use their services. They get nothing out of us using them, except costs and work.
There are plenty of offers for a quick throwaway email and SMS.
You are welcome to set up an email + Nextcloud service for people with your own money in your spare time and offer a 24/7 service.
---
### Author:  [@gus](https://forum.torproject.org/u/gus)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2024, 9:54pm UTC](https://forum.torproject.org/t/isolated-email-account/9104/20 "2024-06-10T21:54:14Z")