Recently, I was watching https://youtu.be/6AynIIFM2WU. This video, by The Hated One, advocates using NymVPN or Mullvad DAITA with the Tor Network in order to combat packet fingerprinting / traffic analysis. According to him, AI and internet service providers can still guess what websites I am using, even over the tor network, through analyzing the network packets. Mullvad DAITA defends against this.
But I am still not sure if I should use Mullvad DAITA or NymVPN in order to hide my tor traffic. If an exit node or a middle node sees that my packets are uniform, can they not guess that I am using a Mullvad or Nym VPN address, despite not knowing the entry node? There are only so many servers which are capable of this, and an adversary that controls the middle or exit node can monitor the VPN servers in order to try and deanonymize the traffic. Or am I mistaken?
Do you agree that, for example, using Mullvad DAITA over tor is a good thing? What does tor network do to definitively thwart this traffic analysis?
This whole conversation is abstract or theoretical and I am not an expert.
There is not much which can be disputed in that video. I had realised much of what it states by myself. DAITA is fine if the small delays it produces is acceptable. Tor produces small delays also so, I guess, it is acceptable.
The one thing all VPNs promise is anonymity and the video absolutely states that “they” know where you go. How can they not… and most state they don’t keep logs.
There is a conspiracy hat on my coat rack and I am now putting it on.
If I were a state actor, whatever side, I would create the biggest, baddest, fastest VPN service available and make it super affordable. It would belong to a company at least 2 arms length away. This company would not keeps logs and could honestly say so. Of course I would have a copy of all the keys. So whatever traffic they could decrypt, I could also. I’m not saying this is happening and not pointing fingers.
Now introduce the Tor browser into the mix. The tor.exe part would connect to the internet as usual now but through the VPN. The packets are encrypted at the Tor browser to go through the entry->middle->exit nodes. Would Tor over Mullvad DAITA work?? I know people use my Snowflake proxy via a VPN.
So using Mullvad DAITA over tor NOT a bad thing. Mullvad states DAITA (Defense against AI-guided Traffic Analysis) is only available in certain cities (for now I assume).
I don’t think it’s necessary if you can (technically and legally) access Tor network, and all you’re worrying about is traffic analysis. DAITA is built using the Maybenot traffic analysis defense framework. And in Maybenot’s git repository it stated it was based on Tor’s Circuit level padding:
I kinda have to agree with you, even though I said it is not a bad idea meaning it can’t hurt.
I’m gonna get a bit off-topic here. In this forum it seems we are all gung-ho about anonymity and privacy and personal data of our internet habits. Yet, as I look around me, and the way we live today, there is something no one ever mentions and it’s those 2 ubiquitous things we all carry on us: the phone and plastic cards we use to pay for everything. Personal data is spewed all day long by our phones and all we buy is recorded because hardly anyone uses cash today. None of these 2 need analysis since it’s already in your name. So they may know a lot more about you than you think. A gold mine for marketers.
Let’s take a survey. How many people here protect their privacy and personal data by not using a smartphone and by using cash as much as possible.
If you can use that on WiFi router I would say possibly yes.
Last I checked your Tor client sets ConnectionPadding auto by default but I’m not sure how the connection-level padding is used like how often or how much?
I don’t answer those type of questions without a lawyer present haha
The question was rhetorical asked merely for effect with no answer expected. My eyes tell me: not many.
My thought is that the consumption info gathered by phones and cards are much more valuable to those who gather it than what sites are visited. It allows them try to get people to buy more stuff they don’t need with money they don’t have because they keep a credit card balance. It’s a trade-off between convenience and personal info. Nice to order a double moka latté frappé and just point a phone at the cashier and walk away.
State actors (all sides) all want to know your internet habits because… well just because that is who they are.
Do you know how the connection padding works in Tor though? How do relays support it? I dont recall it being a setting a rely can simply turn on or am I wrong. Connection padding is kinda what NymVPN does but not entirely obviously.
All relays in the Tor network supports padding, according to the current network concensus. So if the client has ConnectionPadding auto (default setting), the connection level padding will always be used.
and do you trust that lawyer? 